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Framer | | #61
Mike,I agree with t&g being stronger for a subfloor peculiarly afterwards we glue it downwards. I yet say information technology's not any stronger and wont make a roof last whatsoever longer in places where it's non lawmaking or zone two like where you lot're from. It Will not concord a roof together or make a roof last longer where information technology's non zoned for it!And then why don't you lot guys start sheathing walls with t&g??>> Now.. is it overkill ?
yeah ... and no
in tract housing, yes .. in custom housing .. no .. it'south common.. <<I thought yous're zone ii, then everyone has to use t&g no affair what. Why not with tract housing?Or are you saying that it'southward common anywhere for custom homes to use t&g on a roof? That's not true hither and there are custom homes here.>> all the custom builders i know use five/8 when they have trusses 24" oc.. and they used clips
now , thye save a step ( the clips ) and most have switched to T&G and that is also truthful in Zone ane, which doesn't require blocking at the perimeter<<I never frame 24" centers, and then I don't take to use clips. The crazy thing is though this by summer, I framed my first add-on with the 2x12 joists at 24" centers.>> anyways.. i thought you didn't sheath.. don't yous have sheathing crews practice all your sheathing ? <<Yes, I do take sheathing crews but I still sheath myself. What difference does that make anyway who sheaths? We still wouldn't put t&1000 on a roof anyhow unless something changes.Joe Carola
MikeSmith | | #64
so, joe.. if i spec'd T&G 5/8 for the roof, and you had the contract , yous'd build it , correct ?
things change.. some things have hold... other things never catch on
i remeber when drywall was king in RI.... now, everything is blueboard & skimcoat..
the but place we use drywall is in some repair jobs.. or in commercial piece of work
i did a firm correct after the new wind codes went into upshot.. the BI made me put 2x blocking at the fascia, 4' up from the eaves, iv' in from the rakes and both sides of the ridge where we cut out for a ridge vent
about half way thru he told me they had an amendment assuasive T&G roof capsule instead of blocking... that is when RI switched to T&G.. all the yards stock it at present.. and Advantech is cleaning up.. they're about the merely ones who jumped on the five/8"T&Yard bandwagon
Mike Smith Rhode Isle : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Framer | | #lxx
>> so, joe.. if i spec'd T&G 5/8 for the roof, and you had the contract , you'd build it , correct ? <<Mike,If you were an Builder and specked it I would build it and charge for information technology. I would also say that yous were nuts around here to do it, simply I would do information technology.My framing changes when the plans change. There have been quite a few changes in framing over the past twenty years. And so far t&g on a roof isn't one of them. If that's the adjacent change, then I will exist doing it.I've never even seen Advantech before. You think t&g will be on walls next?Joe Carola
Piffin | | #73
"If yous were an Builder and specked it I would build it and charge for it."Everybody should accuse for what they do, just what has being an archi or non got to do with it? If he is writing your cheque, you do what he specifies fifty-fifty if he is still in second form.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Noesis FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own advantage!
Framer | | #74
>> Everybody should accuse for what they exercise, only what has being an archi or not got to do with it? If he is writing your check, you lot practise what he specifies even if he is still in second grade. <<Piffin,As long every bit his plans were approved from the town whether he'southward an Builder or a Homeowner'due south second grader who drew them, I will do what's specified on the canonical plans.Joe Carola
girlbuilder | | #79
For one: having your plans approved past the town ain't going to buy you annihilation merely peradventure a hot coffee from the town inspector when you are at the court house and he's coming together you lot to evidence that muncipalities are waived of all responsibility for house plans and code does not imply liability for design. And the second grader is in school and if he's designing for you, you might want to get back and join him or someone else is gonna take you to schoolhouse.<em>Housewives bulldoze $50k Cadillac SUVs that go 12 MPG and so they can accept a place to put their kid's soccer equipment.</em>Ok, I take to put this in here, because I approximate being the only female here I have to wonder why there's still women that marry houses and I'm tired and so I'm gonna vent and say this reminds me that everytime I'm seen driving i of my own trucks, lettered and all, there'south some dickweed who says to himself, "Oh there she is driving her husband's truck around."Anyway, I tin can't believe that apparently so few people have experience with Adventek. Piffin is right on the coin with how the stuff works.Also, equally for making the roof stronger: Once it is nailed to the roof, information technology becomes part of the <em>roof system</em> and therefore it does brand the roof every bit a office of the entire building envelope, stronger. Bold of course, you follow the nailing pattern and use the proper fasteners and if you lot can read dots and letters that shouldn't be besides hard.I used 1/ii" ply on a small addition roof recently as a function of a 'restore as is' project and let me tell you, I was highly unimpressed and affirmed of my past experience with plywood -- its unstable, weak and tin can't hold a candle to Adventek.At present, it does help to know that 5/8 Adventek "roofing" goes on the roof, 3/four" Adventek "Flooring" goes on the floor and 7/16" OSB is wall sheathing and the 3 should not exist mixed, or confused. I have been on a job nosotros were asked to repair where such defoliation seemed to have occurred with the former "builders" (I utilise that term loosely in this instance).I retrieve possibly if yous put plywood clips in the footing the right direction upwardly, you can stick pieces of dunnage ply or OSB in them and they can serve as a overnice abstruse art display in your garden. Or you lot tin can take a 2" paint castor and make a nice jobsite sign.Have a nice day you all.
Framer | | #83
>> <em>Housewives drive $50k Cadillac SUVs that get 12 MPG and then they tin have a place to put their child's soccer equipment.</em> <<I never said that to you. A far as everything else yous said, y'all lost me.>> 5/8" T & G - Advantek is the only way to go. <<>> Now, information technology does help to know that five/8 Adventek "roofing" goes on the roof, 3/4" Adventek "Flooring" goes on the flooring and 7/sixteen" OSB is wall sheathing and the three should not be mixed, or confused. <<Where are you getting this data from?I'll inquire you this one more time. Is it code for you lot where you lot live to use T&Thou for your roof sheathing? Yes or no?If the answer is no, then if yous think it will brand your roof stronger and your roof will terminal longer then a roof sheathed with square border, that'southward fine. If it'southward Non Lawmaking your roof will not last any longer. I've been a framing contractor for over 20 years and I've never one time seen a roof specked with T&G sheathing.If you like it then much and so why don't y'all sheath your walls with T&G?The mean solar day I get a set of plans with T&G capsule specked on it that will exist the day when I use it.>> Anyway, I can't believe that apparently so few people accept feel with Adventek. Piffin is right on the coin with how the stuff works. <<Why is information technology so hard to believe that peole don't us Advantech and that people don't sheath roofs with T&Thousand? Piffin's right near a lot of things. I apply 3/4" T&G all floor joists. I use 5/8" foursquare edge on all roofs. Using T&G on a roof isn't going to make the roof terminal longer or isn't going to brand information technology whatever stronger. Where's the roof going to go or the sheathing going to go whether y'all use foursquare edge or T&1000?Joe Carola
MikeSmith | | #84
joe... t&one thousand will make the roof stronger... it's the equal of solid blocking...
sooner or subsequently you volition get a task that has to comply with loftier air current design.. but think.. yous'll already know the most cost effective path is T&1000 roof sheathing... cause we've already been there , washed that...
just think nearly the side by side job you get on Block Island ( Zone three.... 120 mph )
don't you e'er become whatsoever work downward Bailiwick of jersey shores ?.... that'southward gotta exist high air current blueprint surface areaMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Piffin | | #85
...and in summation, let me point out that the only ones arguing that 5/viii" Advantec T&G is not superior in every manner are those who have never seen information technology, let alone used any of it.
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MarkH | | #86
I'll effort that on my next craven house. :)
Framer | | #97
>> t&k volition brand the roof stronger... it's the equal of solid blocking...<<Mike,Stronger than what? In your area considering of your 120 mph winds? Once the plywood is down and nailed using SE or T&G in MY Surface area, what strength are you talking most? Where's the roof going to go? Are you talking about current of air, trees falling on it, heavy snow caving the sheathing in............what? Where do you terminate?Why not put T&G on the walls if people call up that in MY Expanse you demand T&One thousand on a roof..why not the walls and say that the walls will exist stronger also???>> don't you ever become any work downwards Jersey shores ?..that'south gotta be high wind design expanse <<Yes, I framed a house downwards the shore right across the street from the ocean...........5/viii" SE on the roof.Joe Carola
Edited 1/twenty/2007 12:31 am ET by Framer
DonNH | | #88
> If it's NOT Lawmaking your roof will not terminal whatsoever longer.
So, by that logic, the cheapest 3-tab shingle roof will last just as long as a slate roof?
I know you're an experienced builder, just you're coming across like a brand new homeowner that equates "to code" with "the best". We all know better, right?
Granted, 1/2" plywood, or maybe even 3/8 OSB, might be plenty potent enough for the application, and come across lawmaking. Merely to blindly say that if it's TO CODE information technology therefore is as stiff or long-lasting equally any other culling flies in the face of the mentality that this lath represents - namely that the CODE is the MINIMUM Adequate, simply not necessarily the all-time or strongest.
Don
Framer | | #94
>> I know you lot're an experienced builder, but you lot're coming across like a make new homeowner that equates "to lawmaking" with "the best". We all know ameliorate, right? <<Donny Boy,I'll say information technology i more time since you haven't got a clue. I'm talking about people who are using T&G on a roof where it IS NOT REQUIRED OR NOT Code OR NOT ZONE 2-three-4-5........ IT IS NOT NECASSARY, PERIOD!!!I utilise 5/8" capsule on all my roofs. It's more enough every bit far as strength and the industry standards in MY area. Mike Smith is in zone two and he has to use 5/viii" T&Grand. I don't, Menstruation! I build quality homes and additions. Where is a roof that I frame using 5/8" capsule going to go that a roof using 5/8" T&K non going to go in MY Surface area?Why don't you commencement using 3/four" T&G on a roof and on walls since what I practise is MINIMUM Acceptable in your inexperienced eyes? You sound like some idiot that thinks that using T&K is the only way to go zone ii or non and anybody else is building cheap homes. Wake upwardly son!!!Joe Carola
Edited 1/20/2007 12:02 am ET by Framer
girlbuilder | | #99
Gee wiz Mr. Carola, you seem clumsily hot effectually the collar today. Concern slow?"'ll ask yous this one more time. Is it code for you lot where y'all live to use T&G for your roof sheathing? Yes or no?If the answer is no, then if you retrieve it volition brand your roof stronger and your roof will final longer then a roof sheathed with square edge, that'southward fine. If it'southward Not CODE your roof volition not last any longer. I've been a framing contractor for over 20 years and I've never once seen a roof specked with T&G capsule.If you lot like it and so much then why don't you sheath your walls with T&G?The day I get a set of plans with T&Chiliad sheathing specked on information technology that will be the day when I use it."No, its not lawmaking, only who cares? I use it considering I chose to utilize information technology, its that simple. I call up its a adept product, its stable and potent. I don't like plywood, don't similar stupid #### clips either.And my partner has been in the business for 46 years, so what? He's framed plenty with plywood as well and when we started using Adventek he won't get back to plywood.I make up a lot of my ain plans and use it, also if plywood is spec'd on plans, I usually modify information technology to Adventek. Apparently its a personal matter and a regional thing. I was unaware that there is such a controversy regarding OSB vs. plywood. I'll keep that in listen for whatever purpose may ascend. But we use OSB on ninety% of our projects and will continue to do so.The reference to the flooring on the roof etc., was a joke that apparently y'all missed. Lighten up Joe.
herman57 | | #91
Look, here is the bargain! If you are edifice a inexpensive house use osb but on cypher less than sixteen" centers. otherwise 5/8 advantec is the only manner to go and never use osb on anything of quality.
Westcoast | | #92
Perhaps we should use 3/iv" t+g on the roof and iii/4" capsule for the walls. That would brand it a all-time quality house in your stance?
Westcoast | | #93
I have used five/8" roof capsule before but non t+g. Used it on two different custom homes that the homeowner wanted it washed that way. Did another one that was covered in 3/4" shiplap then gone over with 1/2" plywood.
I guess if yous have trees falling on your house it will exist stronger. Won't make a bit of departure to the roofing material life expectancy.
Where does it stop? Does two layers of five/8" plywood brand the house amend, stronger, and overall a better house?
herman57 | | #96
take a look at how 1/two plywood and osd bow when you employ them with or without clips and then tell me that 5/viii isn't better.
Westcoast | | #100
Then tell me, if i was building a business firm correct beside yours and i was sheathing with three/4" you would consider my business firm to be fifty-fifty better than yours?
herman57 | | #107
There is a line betwixt non enough and over kill. I becomes obvious with feel which management to take.
Westcoast | | #108
Fair enough, that's all i was wondering nigh was if people did it because everyone else did it or if they had definate reasons to employ information technology.
I am in the spec domicile market hither for the final three years and there is still lots of turn a profit in the marketplace, but i just stay the course and put on roofs and walls what other guys are using which is 1/two OSB.
herman57 | | #95
I didn't mention 3/iv" plywood at all! I said 5/8" on the roof and no osb unless you are building track homes! I build custom homes that required quality and that is what I use.
girlbuilder | | #98
7/16" OSB is fine for wall sheathing, meets code, is a greener product, is still more than regular as a product and stability meets or exceeds that of plywood sheathing. I don't know near building 24" on center as that isn't code effectually here. And once the IBC is adopted nationally (as its supposed to be) it won't be code anywhere unless under different building procedures, such equally with SIPS or timberframing.We go wind and snowfall around here, seems similar some of you must be building in some pretty warm, like shooting fish in a barrel going climes, like I'd like to be right at present.
Framer | | #101
Gee wiz Miss Girlbuilder, I'm not hot under the collar, are you hot nether your neckband today?Y'all say that "using T&G is the only way to go" and I questioned you considering you can't dorsum it upwardly, that'due south all. I thought that is was lawmaking where you lot're from, I realize at present since you finally answered that it's non code and you do it by choice. That's fine also.All I was saying to you that is it's not the only style to go, that'south all.>> vii/16" OSB is fine for wall sheathing, meets code, is a greener product, is all the same more regular equally a product and stability meets or exceeds that of plywood sheathing. <<>> For ane: having your plans approved by the boondocks ain't going to buy you anything simply possibly a hot coffee from the town inspector when yous are at the court house and he'south meeting you to evidence that muncipalities are waived of all responsibility for house plans and code does not imply liability for design.<<So me maxim that what I exercise by post-obit approved plans from the boondocks and following code, and asking y'all or anyone else if v/8" square edge sheathing meets code, isn't going to cut it with the town inspector when yous will but settle with 7/16" osb because it "MEETS Code" is ok for you simply?If 7/16" meets your code for walls, then why non apply T&1000 for your walls since information technology'southward stronger for your roof, when 5/8" square border meets code?>> I don't like plywood, don't similar stupid #### clips either. <<Why do you keep talking virtually plywood and clips?I never employ clips and I use 5/eight" capsule on all my roofs with rafters @ 16" centers. Are you framing 24" centers where if you did apply plywood you wood have to use clips?
Joe Carola
girlbuilder | | #109
"Why do you keep talking about plywood and clips?"Joe, because where I was trained and in the code books I've known, clips are essential equipment with plywood for roof sheathing, but and so again, what practice I know? Equally I detest plywood and don't use the clips or other associates and I don't have 20 years feel to back up my assertions.If y'all use square edge ply, you don't use clips? Not being snide, only wondering. I am sold on Adventek though, if that isn't obvious.
Framer | | #113
>> If you utilise foursquare edge ply, you don't employ clips? Not being snide, but wondering.<<I never use clips and I use 5/8" capsule on all my roofs with rafters @ 16" centers. The only time I utilise clips is when I framed with roof trusses @ 24" centers. I framed an add-on for the first time with 2x10 rafters @ 24" centers and I used clips. Other so that, clips are never used.When I showtime started framing back in 1983, all we used for roof sheathing was 1/2" and all our sub-floors were 1/ii". Afterward on either the framers or trimmers would go dorsum and install 1/2" underlayment on superlative of that where carpet was going. Oak floors went right on height of the 1/2"At present, all nosotros use is 3/4" T&One thousand for sub-floors glued and carpet and oak goes correct on acme.Joe Carola
MikeSmith | | #114
can someone post to me...... i think deleted postal service #110 must have been to me
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Blueprint / Build / Repair / Restore
Sphere | | #115
Here ya go.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
dovetail97128 | | #102
The IBC doesn't allow 24" O.c. for what? rafters? trusses? joists? studs?
I am not trying to nit pick, I only don't know what the new code says virtually these areas .
girlbuilder | | #110
The IBC doesn't allow 24" on center for stick build assemblies on roofs, floors or walls last I knew, just I don't know maybe I'm wrong because we've never investigated doing 24" on centre equally it would exist ridiculous around hither with wind loads and snowfall loads as they are.Again though, the BOCA last I checked allowed it, forth with 2 x 4 construction, providing that let-in braces were on all four corners. But the IBC doesn't permit 2 x 4 walls or 24 on center stick building as far as I have read.Trusses are some other thing, we've always placed those at 24" center (of class per manufacturer's spec -- in other words, the truss designers as far as I know make the call-outs for that). I don't know of anyone who designs their own trusses these days -- anyone? Someone gave me an old military manual that detailed making your own, but anyway...
Timuhler | | #65
Joe,
Kind of nice cutting and stacking less rafters?
Framer | | #71
Tim,I did frame that add-on that I was telling Mike near with 24" center 2x12 joists. I forgot to tell him that the rafters were also 24" centers with h-clips.The 2x12 joists at 24" centers I didn't like at all and called the Builder upwards and he said to do it anyway.The rafters I besides felt funny doing and my guys idea I was nuts until they saw the plans. At that place's a get-go for everything. The times I used trusses they were 24" centers with h-clips likewise.I did employ trusses virtually 15 years ago on my friends add-a-level that I designed. I put them at xvi" centers.Joe Carola
Timuhler | | #76
Around here everything is 24" oc when information technology comes to roofs. At to the lowest degree that I've seen and that was the way I was taught. That's what I love most the forums, there are then many different means to do things around the country.
Got whatsoever cool projects you've been working on or coming up? We've been siding simply volition first framing once again in a couple of weeks. Did you see that timber truss I got to build?
dovetail97128 | | #66
This sure seems to be an oxymoron to me
"it looks to be a very loftier quality 4-ply""
MikeSmith | | #67
well, if you saw this ply , you'd call it "high quality " likewise
Mike Smith Rhode Isle : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
dovetail97128 | | #68
Mike,
What species and who is the manufacturer. Be nice toknow so I could look for it out here.
Framer | | #123
>> You stick the grove over the tongue, not the natural language into the grove. You immature guys always get it backwards. <<You're joking, correct?Joe Carola
Piffin | | #124
LOL, He must be, we all know that you are older than the hills!;)
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Framer | | #125
I'1000 still young at 24.......or is it 42.....I'yard forgetting a lot of things lately…….;-)Joe Carola
Omah | | #127
I'1000 a lot older than that. My first t+chiliad sheathing job was in south. cal in the tardily 60's.
1 2 Of 5 8,
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Framer | | #69
Piffin,I would say that the t&g is stronger then SE. I'm just saying that it doesn't make a roof any stronger and so using square border. Some people are implying that it does.Joe Carola